Nancy Ho on Redefining Success and Fostering Fulfillment

00:57
Erin
So you can imagine my surprise when someone reached out from halfway around the world in Singapore and was interested in doing an episode together. It reminded me that asking the bigger questions about life and exploring our own personal meaning and fulfillment is not something that’s limited to our little neck of the woods or even our moment in time. It’s universally human and it’s been the topic of thought and conversation for millennia. Today, I’m pleased to welcome Nancy Ho to the podcast. Nancy’s work centers around fulfillment as well. She has worked for over 26 years as a personal coach to help high achieving individuals navigate the intricate balance between professional accomplishment and personal fulfillment. It turns out, somewhat, not surprisingly, that a lot of individuals who are professionally ambitious really struggle to find that calm, content, strong undercurrent of satisfaction that we call fulfillment. 

01:55
Erin
In this episode, we’re going to dive into topics such as navigating the challenges of success, mastering balance, and fostering resilience in the face of stress. I’m excited to learn from Nancy’s expertise and years of experience in this area. Welcome, Nancy. 

02:12
Nancy
I am so honored. I just love the way you introduce. Thank you. 

02:18
Erin
I am so excited to talk to you and to have someone to talk to halfway around the world. What a beautiful way to spend our time together. 

02:27
Nancy
For sure. For sure. Yeah. 

02:29
Erin
So I’m going to dive right into it because I just. I have a whole lot to ask you and I just want to get into the good stuff. I know You’ve coached over 10,000 people in your career, either individually or in groups. What are the common threads that you see in people? What are their struggles? What are they looking for? 

02:48
Nancy
Before I talk about struggles. 

02:50
Erin
Yes. 

02:51
Nancy
Let me say my observation of most people, if not nearly all, tend to be outside in. Now let me explain what’s outside in that means we are looking on the outside for our inverted karma happiness. 

03:11
Erin
Right? 

03:12
Nancy
Meaning I’ll be happy when I get that promotion, I’ll be happy when I close that, you know, $1 million deal. I’ll be happy when, you know, I get married, have two children, and so on, so forth. Or I’ll be happy when I’ve got that. My dream car. 

03:33
Erin
Right, right. 

03:34
Nancy
So this is what I mean by outside in. I’ll be happy when I get this. But strangely, when they get that, they’re not all that happy. You know, maybe happy for a little while. 

03:48
Erin
Yes. 

03:49
Nancy
For example, right. Say the car. I’ll be happy when I get that dream car. Sure. Right. Of course. When they get that they’re happy. So I would say the two very happy days. The. The very first day when they drive it and the last day when they sell it. You know what I mean? In between is it’s just another car. 

04:11
Erin
Right. 

04:12
Nancy
I mean, likewise, like where I come from, this part of the world, I’m sure it’s all everywhere too, but particularly in Asia. All right. We tend to be quite obsessed over branded bags. 

04:25
Erin
Oh, branded bags. Oh, yes, right. 

04:29
Nancy
Very obsessed over all these branded bags is one of those things. Right. So then you would have this, you know, lady say, oh, Nancy, you know, this is a special edition and my VIP, you must come. And then, you know, we reserve that for you and then you take a look and that’s what you like and blah. I was outside in too. Huh? Okay. Oh, yeah, I have to go. It’s as if that’s the most important thing on earth. So of course I dash there. It’s like, yeah, that bag would make me so happy. Example, of course, here I’m talking about many years ago where I was much younger. And after I got it back, of course, when you pay for the bag, it’s like, yay. You know, they may carry it again the first time. Yeah, pretty good. 

05:20
Nancy
Maybe the second time, subsequently it’s another bag. 

05:24
Erin
Right. 

05:24
Nancy
And often I do not even remember I have that bag because there’s going to be another bag in the dust bag. You see, so this, you know, all the branded bags is thousand bags, so to speak, and then they’re all in my wardrobe and sometimes I don’t even remember have that. 

05:38
Erin
Yeah. It’s almost like there’s an aspect there as well of whatever you’re looking for. It’s always future focused. It’s not now. Right. So even when you get the bag, you’re like thinking about your next bag. You’re not thinking about the bag you have now? 

05:54
Nancy
I. I know of some of my clients, I think three of them, they buy the bag. It does not even leave the paper bag. That means the bag is in the paper bag and the paper bag in the wardrobe. 

06:07
Erin
Oh, my goodness. 

06:09
Nancy
Buy for the sake of buying, not even using it. 

06:12
Erin
Right, right. 

06:13
Nancy
Okay. I’m not saying everybody’s like that, but there are people that just keep going for that. They chase. I’ll use the word. They chase for the high. Yeah, whatever high means. Okay, High could be deposition. High could be a material thing. High could be wanting your kids to have good grades. Right. High could be like, you know, getting that deal, like chasing and chasing for that high. I call it that high. Yeah. And of course, get a high to chase for the next high and they could chase for next high. Well, all being said, what’s. What’s negative about it, right? I mean, sure, you get what you want. That’s your desire, you know, that’s not a bad thing. So called go for your dreams. But when the intention is not there, the intention, you just do it. 

07:10
Nancy
Almost like blindly, you know, or you just get caught up to the idea of getting it. The idea of clinching that deal, the idea of just having that connection, the idea of, you know, X, Y, Z or whatever. Right? Everybody wants different things without the intention, then something will give way. What would that be? At the end of the day when you have all this, and then what? Because it’s not intentional. Right. It’s just like. I don’t like to use that phrase, but it’s like, true, you know, keep up with the Joneses, all right? Just keeping up. So at the end of day, you know, where’s the fulfillment? 

07:56
Erin
Right? 

07:57
Nancy
You know what I mean? It’s not intentional when, you know, when you get something. Why? Why do I want to do that? 

08:04
Erin
I was just thinking that it’s the why behind it that’s missing. 

08:07
Nancy
Right. 

08:09
Erin
Okay. You recently contributed a chapter to Jack Canfield’s book Success Redefined. And in it you described something called the Professional Paradox. I was wondering if you could tell us more about that. 

08:22
Nancy
Sure. Well, I mean, I was going to do the chapter. I said, I want to do something that, like, different, maybe even really speaks to people’s heart, not just the obvious of, like, what success is after. The title is Success Redefined. So not conventional success that we all know about. Why do I want to say something that everybody already know? You know, I mean, so redundant. So therefore it’s called the Paradox of Success Hidden Struggles of high performing professionals. Hidden struggles. Let’s look at as an example, the Hollywood star. They have the talent. Let’s look at it that way. They have the fame, they have the money, right? The wealth. And many of them have the looks. But we know true news. How many of them overdose on drugs, alcohol, relationship is messed up, so on, so forth. 

09:26
Nancy
And I don’t think it’s because they are actor, actresses or singers. They’re human. It’s known because they are public figure, very public figure, you know what I mean? Compared to us, we are not that public. And of course, doesn’t help, you know, news like to be created around them. That crazy thing. So why are they unhappy? Don’t make sense, right? They are popular, right? They’re talented. And many of them are depressed. So why? Because of this void and emptiness. Now they can’t shout to the world like they’re unhappy because you will appear like you are very ungrateful. So let’s come back to us, right? People like us, not necessarily the famous as famous people, it’s the same, right? You’ve got family, you’ve got your good title. And then you are respected and so on, so forth, right? You do well and all of that. 

10:29
Nancy
But yet many of them hit the bottles, right? That’s what I call happy hours. Whoever created a happy hours, that means the rest of time are unhappy. You needed a few hours of happy hours, you know, that’s kind of strange and interesting. So anyway, so. So they hit the bottles because I call them the distractor. I’m not talking about everybody got to go for alcohol. I’m just using the example, right? Right. I have clients that come to me, okay? I give this good example. I have this very successful CEO, right? Bought chairman of this organization and that. But he’s really huge. Not just fat. I mean really big. All right? And of course he didn’t like it. He came, he says that, okay, I need to solve my drinking problem because I drink so much. That’s why I become this size. 

11:25
Nancy
And I looked at, I said, alcohol alone cannot make you this big. Other one, so many people that are drinking, they all got to look the size, which is not true, right? I do not dispute the fact the calories from the alcohol they consume of course added to his weight, but cannot get so big. So true enough, all right? Deep down, not only a void, he has anger. Intense anger that he botted up. And this is not new as just recently. In fact, when I did my regression work, it went back all the way to the time he was a child. So accumulated, accumulated. Right. Okay. Today he’s very successful, but never last. The emotion only escalate. So what’s wrong with that? Right? What’s wrong? Okay, anger. So. So what our brain produces natural chemical feel good. Good chemical like dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin. Right. 

12:38
Nancy
All those good chemicals. Feel bad? Bad chemical cortisol. So, in fact, if people want to really look at their weight or their health, we have to look at the cortisol reduction first. Because if the brain continues to produce that cortisol. Cortisol, I call it slow poison. So it’s not necessary that, you know, it produce cortisol and then we become fat, but it will attack our system. The reproduction of our cells around production of our cells, like a lot of people get, this acid reflux, hypertension, eczema, all of that. Not virus or disease. Right. We never had it. So how does the body produce that? 

13:33
Erin
Right, Right. 

13:34
Nancy
How did it happen? Right. 

13:38
Erin
I wanted to go back to. You had brought up the word success, redefining success. And part of the issue, I’ve found, has to do with how we’ve defined success culturally. So traditional measures of success are often focused on money and fame or power. A lot of us spend time in our upbringing having success defined for us and judged of us by others. And I don’t mean this necessarily in a negative way. It just often is the way it is, whether it’s teachers, employers, you know, societal expectations, that sense of success is defined and then judged externally. And I actually was really careful for the first year of my fulfillment equation work not to use the term success at all. I just blacklisted it because it comes with so much baggage. 

14:37
Erin
And then I recently came up with a new definition based on what was really coming through in the conversations I was having with guests on this podcast. And so I wanted to put it out to you, Nancy, and see what you thought of it and whether it resonated with you. 

14:52
Nancy
I am big about success, mind you. All right, like we said, you know, we want to unleash our potential. My niece, for example, all right, she says she’s not ambitious. And I was upset with her. She’s only 31 years old. And I said, what do you mean you’re not ambitious? You’re not going to just waste your life and cruise along. So I think about, you know, like I said, your potential, what we can do, maximize it. You know, we got so much to contribute. We have so much to give. It’s not about chasing. It’s about don’t cruise along in your life. I mean, why? I just look at her. I said, well, of course she turned around and says, what’s wrong with being, you know, content? That’s what she said. I said, nothing wrong. Provided you will not regret when you’re older. Right. 

15:46
Nancy
Because when time passed. Right. 20, 25, mine. Right. 20, 25, keep me not right. So we cannot turn back the clock and unwind or redo anything not possible. However, we want to do that. So we want to maximize. All right? Whatever we can contribute, what we can do. We are all good in our own way. We have so much to give. Right. So it’s not chasing after something. Whenever I do my group coaching, there’s something I said again and again, regardless what topic. I said, have the end in mind. Always have the end in mind. Right. Because if you don’t end in mind, where you going? Even, even our diet every day, what we’re going to eat have to end in mind. When you have an end in mind and then come back to hear it now and then make that choice. 

16:40
Erin
Right. 

16:41
Nancy
Usually you will not be that wrong. 

16:44
Erin
Right. 

16:44
Nancy
But if you go about, like, whatever, and then we go about eating the whatever. Right. Then, oh, I shouldn’t eat so much. I shouldn’t eat this type food and I should not this. You’re not that. So have the end in mind and then come back and strategize and plan towards it. So that’s not chasing. 

17:06
Erin
Right. 

17:07
Nancy
And of course, the end in mind must come with the why. 

17:11
Erin
Yes. Right. 

17:12
Nancy
Yeah. 

17:14
Erin
So here’s my new definition, Nancy. See what you think about it. 

17:18
Nancy
Sure. 

17:19
Erin
Success is the sense of satisfaction and fulfillment you feel when you manage to do something that was important and meaningful to you. 

17:27
Nancy
Exactly. I love the word meaningful. 

17:30
Erin
Yeah. 

17:31
Nancy
It also got to be purposeful. Purposeful and meaningful. 

17:34
Erin
Yes. Oh, I like that. 

17:37
Nancy
Great. Purposeful and meaningful. 

17:39
Erin
Yeah. Because I think I was trying to get at a couple of things. Number one, I wanted something that made success internally driven rather than externally driven. You know, something that allowed it to be unique to each person, that there’s no right answer to success. And then I also wanted to make sure that it didn’t presuppose magnitude, that it doesn’t have to be something huge. And it’s also another way to make it individual. It can be as big and difficult or as small and simple as you want it to be. So, you know, for someone’s success might be to win the Boston Marathon, but for someone else, their version of success for that particular day might be that they just got out of bed in the morning. 

18:22
Nancy
That’s right. That’s right. To each his own. That’s why I said start with the anti mind. Yeah, right. In fact, one of the things that I coach, I’ve got tribe, I call them my tribe. Okay. And we’ve been doing it. It’s not about the. Just for the new year. I don’t believe just. Yeah, it’s the new year. So keep doing stuff for the new year. Then after that January is gone and then come February and they forget about it because it doesn’t feel new anymore. Right. So now. But rather start your day int. So I started this thing with them called goal statement. 

18:59
Erin
Okay. 

19:00
Nancy
Not. It’s different from goal setting. It’s not goal setting. All right. Go setting. We all know what’s goal setting, right? Okay. 

19:07
Erin
Yeah. 

19:08
Nancy
Go statement. That means you are first thing in the morning, create a statement what you want for the day. Yeah. 

19:17
Erin
Okay. Give me an example. Like what was yours for today? 

19:20
Nancy
Okay. First I have to talk about the criteria first. 

19:25
Erin
Okay. Yes. 

19:26
Nancy
But to be in the first person as I. Okay. Not we, not, you know, any other way to put just I, it got to be, of course, present tense. Okay. And it got to be in every word has to be positive. Okay. All right. And then of course it got to be short because when it’s long and when you just don’t click, you got. 

19:50
Erin
To remember it throughout the day. 

19:52
Nancy
Yes, yes. So I’ve been doing this thing like I’m slim, fit and healthy at 48kg. 

20:04
Erin
What’s kg? 

20:05
Nancy
Oh, kilograms. 

20:08
Erin
Oh, you’ve actually put in a very measurable. Okay. 

20:13
Nancy
Yeah. So I am slim, fit and healthy at 48 kg. 

20:21
Erin
All right? 

20:22
Nancy
Right. So it’s like so specific. And then when I say this and this is self affirmation, I create it and affirm it throughout the day. And guess what? My choices will work towards it. Right. 

20:37
Erin
Right. So it’s almost like a mantra you’re saying to yourself throughout the day. And then when you’re presented with choices, do you want the fries or do you want the salad? 

20:46
Nancy
Right. 

20:46
Erin
Want to go for a walk or do you want to sit on the couch? 

20:49
Nancy
All right. 

20:49
Erin
You’re reminded of the identity that you’re creating for yourself. 

20:53
Nancy
Correct. 

20:55
Erin
Neat. And the other thing I’ll say, you know. 

20:59
Nancy
Right. In a big goal setting is so big. So, you know, it’s so much. And then we forget about it. And every day we make the wrong choices. So how Are you going to reach the goal? 

21:08
Erin
So you’re making sure not to bite off more than you can chew. It’s just small little bites. 

21:14
Nancy
Correct. See, so while I’m talking to you, see, they were posted on this WhatsApp group that I have. 

21:22
Erin
Okay. 

21:23
Nancy
All right. And you go. I’m focused and connected with my team. What they want for the day, you know, what do you want today? Oh, someone is so interesting. I’m wanted. 

21:35
Erin
Oh, I like that. Yeah. 

21:37
Nancy
Simple, sure. It doesn’t have to be long, lengthy. You know, it can be. Sometimes it can be longer, sometimes it’s slightly shorter. All right. 

21:46
Erin
I am wanted. I feel like there’s so much. I have so many questions for that person. 

21:50
Nancy
No, even a simple one. Like, I make every moment count. 

21:54
Erin
Oh, yes. 

21:55
Nancy
This is so good. You know, how we procrastinate, how we waste our time. 

21:59
Erin
Yes. 

22:00
Nancy
You know, doing God knows what. And we think we are productive. Then at the end of the day, what did I achieve today? I have been busy, but what did I do? You know, that sort of stuff. So they actually posted on that. On our WhatsApp group. On our WhatsApp group. And it’s good because, I mean, we read that everybody reads that in the group. Right. So it’s also very encouraging. And I said the first thing, of course, is about making choices because it would just direct you to make the right choices. 

22:29
Erin
Yeah. I was thinking that you’ve got some accountability there when you’re all posting as a community together. 

22:35
Nancy
Correct, correct. And ownership. Because you say this and you’re telling the whole world. Inverted comma. The whole world. 

22:44
Erin
Right. Oh, that’s fantastic. 

22:48
Nancy
So to me, that success redefined. Right? Redefined as you’re not just chasing again after the outside thing, you know, the shiny objects. Nothing wrong. Don’t get me wrong. Nothing wrong with buying stuff. I buy a lot of stuff. You know, as I said, I’ve got like. All right, I’ve got 100 bucks and 60 watches. 

23:06
Erin
Oh, my God, Nancy. 

23:09
Nancy
No, that. Because. Because I like, I have them to accessorize. Right. How what I wear. You got to go, whatever. But everyone that I buy, okay. Has got a purpose that’s. Of that. So the why. 

23:23
Erin
It’s got a why. 

23:24
Nancy
So I do want people think, like, I mean, I wish I could, but I don’t think I want to. To be frugal. I think it’s nice to be frugal, I think, but I don’t think I want to be frugal. 

23:38
Erin
And you’re owning it. And that’s fantastic. 

23:41
Nancy
Yeah. I mean, is that what you want? Right? It’s something. Right. But I just. I want to be generous. I want to. I want abundance. I don’t want to be limited. 

23:53
Erin
Yeah. 

23:54
Nancy
You see, I don’t. Yeah. So of course. Of course you got to be, like, within your means. So I’m not going to, like, buy stuff that I cannot afford and just to bust my credit card. I would never do that. Of course. Just like, lately, I just changed in my house, the outdoor awning. I just changed this other stove and this and that. So people ask me, so why are you changing them? I mean, you know, they’re not working. I said, no, they are working. But I said, it’s time to change. So it’s an attitude in life is not only about the thing, but it’s like, why has it got to be broken? Then you change. 

24:36
Erin
Yeah. Okay. 

24:38
Nancy
It’s the same attitude that until I’m broken, then I start changing. No, it’s evolving. Right. It’s stepping up. It’s, you know, step up, level up. So my home improvement, never stop. It doesn’t have to be big stuff. It got to be like, okay, this plant has to report there and do that. So this becomes an attitude that’s always, you know, in my mind, it’s always like, doing more purposefully, meaningfully. And then let’s say, like, I’m talking about my house, I walked in. It’s so fulfilling. Right? Who’s to see for myself? I mean, sure, I invite people, but then they’re not here every day. But it’s more like, you know, the fulfillment. I write, my effort, even before my effort, my thoughts, how I put this together, the strategy and then the effort. And then I look at it’s like, so pleasing. That’s fulfillment. 

25:32
Nancy
It’s the same thing with my business. I never do same old. I’m in a similar business. I’m in the helping people profession. But I never do the same old. 

25:46
Erin
Right. You’re always growing. 

25:48
Nancy
Yeah, same, but different. Yeah, Never simple thing. Same, same, but different. So the difference is stepping up, leveling up? 

25:58
Erin
Yes. 

25:59
Nancy
Right. The difference is at the edge, you know, Creative. Yeah. Being creative. 

26:05
Erin
I was wondering if you could tell me about your own childhood, how you used to measure success and the pressure you felt to win the race of life. 

26:14
Nancy
When I was young was very materialistic. Yeah, I was very materialistic. That’s why I talk about the outside in. Okay. It’s just keep chasing and keep chasing, and success came early, like 25 years old. 

26:34
Erin
Traditional measures of success, I’m assuming. 

26:37
Nancy
Yes, Traditional measures of success, which, like I said, it’s not important. It’s not useless. It’s not. Not good. Yeah, but that alone become negative, right? So that was that alone. Okay, so that alone I have a health scare. I never had a pimple on my face as a teenager. So I had a cyst in my womb. And it was so early in the early days, you know, it’s not as advanced. They cannot, they cannot tell if it’s cancerous or not. They have to, you know, operate, take it out, you know, diagnose, and then they know it’s cancerous. I was only 28. I think about 27 or 28. So as 27 year old. You hear that? It’s not funny. I mean, especially when the doctors say, like in the midst of operation, if you feel that it’s not right, well, it’s not right. 

27:33
Nancy
Not looking right. Especially the womb. We will have to take out the entire womb as a 27. No, no, I don’t want to hear this. So I went into a denial for two years. No, no, this cannot be true. The doctor make a mistake. How crazy was I? So anyhow, after two years, it was like I said, oh, you know, better go back and see what happened. By then you’d grown so huge. So thank goodness. All right, it was not cancerous. I did the op. It was not cancerous. So that was my wake up call that said, how did it happen? Like I said, I didn’t even have a pimple on my face. Right? So how did it happen? So looking back, I said, of course. That’s why I talk about the cortisol. My cortisol was high because I was always pissed off. 

28:18
Nancy
I was angry, I want things my way. I was forceful, I was demanding. Nothing I’m proud of at all as I speak. But at that time, I can’t see better because I was just chasing after that high. I just wanted this way. I just want it. And then of course, because the, the success comes with that wealth, right? Come with that money, right? The measurement of that. So who’s to say I’m wrong, right? Who’s to say I’m wrong? Right now I’m 61 and I look pretty good. Can you imagine when I was only 25? 

28:53
Erin
You do look good. 

28:54
Nancy
Sounds like I’m showing off, but it’s a fact, you know, I was like upkeep myself and stuff like that, you know. But that was my wakeup call. And that’s why I look inward. Introspection. All right, what went wrong? And that was part of the thing that I talk about in my chapter as well. All right, There was no movement. It was just chasing for the high as so many times already. 

29:17
Erin
So what changed after that? What did you change? What did you learn from that health scare? And how did life look different for you afterwards? 

29:27
Nancy
Yeah, for sure. So that’s why I said I was angry, pissed off and all of that. So I went first. Introspection. All right, what went wrong? If we cannot know what. What went wrong, we cannot fix anything. Correct. So I also, I said, all right, stop being angry. It can be that simple. Seriously, stop being angry. Then of course, I go deeper. Why was I angry? All right, so I. Because of my outlook of life. That this is not fair. That is not fair, you know, so anger stem from. It’s not fair. Just like a child not getting what he wants or what she wants. They stamp their feet. It’s not fair, you know, all right, it’s not fair. I want this. It’s the same, of course, as an adult, we don’t do that. But then it’s is similar energy, right? Yeah. 

30:21
Nancy
So stop being angry. There’s no fairness in this world. 

30:26
Erin
Was it easy to stop being angry? Or is it like quitting smoking or something where. I mean, I’ve actually never quit smoking, but, you know, was. I’ve heard of things like that are really, really hard or you may have setbacks or have to try over again. 

30:41
Nancy
You gotta start with understanding your belief. So my personal belief is like, you know, I want to play fair, okay? Life is about playing fair. This is. This is a crazy belief because there’s no fairness. Okay? What I’m trying to say is we can only make our world our own behavior as far as we can play out with people. But to expect fairness in the world is a crazy thing. I mean, look around, you know, all the crazy bad stuff that happened, the negative things that happened. I mean, I have no end to explaining why people do that. What they’re thinking, I don’t know. So we can only create our own world and not be affected by the real world. By saying that, I don’t mean don’t care. By saying that, I mean, what can you control? 

31:37
Nancy
We can only control what we can control. We cannot control what we cannot control. All right, so sure, I do social work. I contribute to this organization called International Justice Mission, where they help girls, particularly from modern slavery and sex exploitation. 

32:01
Erin
Yes. 

32:02
Nancy
Yeah. So I volunteer both money and services. Right. I teach the girls soft skills, life skills, you know, because even they are being. Being saved. So got saved. All right. But they still are being traumatized. So I help them with the healing and so on and so forth. 

32:23
Erin
Yeah. And that’s something you can control, all right? 

32:25
Nancy
Correct. Yeah, it is something I can control. So. So I don’t mean that, you know, the world is unfair, so who cares? No, it’s like, what can I do? So I do what I can do and not get affected by what I cannot do. And then I will get pissed off and angry, which a lot of people have that righteous anger, you know, the righteous anger. This is not right. That is not right. And that was what I had, righteous anger. It’s not that I’m angry with my mom. I’m angry with, you know, people not doing things. No, I had this righteous anger. This is not fair. That’s not right. But what can I do? Therefore, my brain produces that cortisol and caused me having that assist. 

33:05
Erin
I wanted to go back to the chapter in Success Redefined. And if it’s okay with you, I’m just going to read an excerpt because I really loved this part. This excerpt talks about the professional paradox that we were touching on earlier. This paradox arises from the dichotomy between external achievements and internal fulfillment. External achievements are visible, quantifiable, and often subject to societal validation. They’re the milestones that society encourages us to strive for, the benchmarks by which we compare ourselves to others. However, these achievements, while significant, aren’t always synonymous with satisfaction and subsequently, happiness. Internal fulfillment, on the other hand, is deeply personal and subjective. It’s about feeling content, at peace, and satisfied with who we are and the life we lead. It’s about living in alignment with our values, passions, and purpose. Unlike external achievements, internal fulfillment cannot be measured or validated by others. 

34:07
Erin
It’s a deeply personal journey that varies from one individual to another. So I love this here because I feel like you’ve been talking about a lot of this throughout our conversation today. 

34:19
Nancy
Exactly. Yeah. 

34:21
Erin
And so I know in this chapter you also go on to discuss five strategies that we use to help guide us towards finding a sense of fulfillment. And I thought maybe we could walk through each one. So the first I know is introspection. You’ve talked a lot about that, but anything to add about introspection? 

34:39
Nancy
Introspection has to first come from values, as I said earlier on my story. Right. So I could change my belief that it’s not about, you know, play fair with the world, right? It’s not that it’s like what’s, what is my value? So my value is love, truthfulness and integrity. So I go about to my life, day in, night out based on these three values, right? That itself will give us that authentic confidence as like this is who I am but it’s not the egoistic, this is who I am, right? Egoistic thing. This is who I am, right? No, but this from the vat. So I’m very truthful. So whether it is a one on one client or you know, in my group coaching my tribe, as I mentioned, I’m very truthful. And sometimes, you know, the truth hurts, right? Truth hurts. 

35:40
Nancy
But they left it very well because first they know my value and my intention because how can I mince it, filter it. Then I’m not being truthful and therefore I cannot help you. I’m just politically right stuff, you know, what’s the point? 

35:59
Erin
How does one discover their values? How do they make sure that they’re identifying their values based on what is true for them and not what they think the right answer is or what other people think should be true for them, right? 

36:11
Nancy
It is an exercise. I go through this exercise with people. It’s not just I sit here and then dream up with some words. So of course some people find it rather they struggle like what are my values as you said, right? So that struggle with it, I say first go and Google or ChatGPT, ask for value words. So the whole bunch value, you know, comes up and then shortlist, short list as which are the ones that resonate with you? I mean we are not a child anymore. So when certain things that we read we know like either yeah, I’m like that or I like to be that. So, so I am loved. And that’s because coming from my late dad, right? 

36:55
Nancy
The only thing I know about is called love because he gave it to me that for, you know, although three years of my life because he passed on after three years when I was three years old. But he given me love, I mean program me with love and all that, right? So that for I resonate with, right? So even I’m truthful. I said what may hurt but they know my intention. All right? It’s coming from the place of love. After a short list, okay, three to five. All right? Values that resonate with oneself. Then the next thing is what activities to work on? What activities would I want to engage in to express my values? 

37:38
Erin
Okay, yeah. 

37:41
Nancy
So let’s say even a singer. There are singers and they are singers, right? There are singers that, wow, you know, is coming from their values. Singers that just sing for the sake of singing. And then those are the ones that is not sustainable. They’re popular for a while and then they’re gone, right? So like, you know, you read just now the word passion. So the passion is coming from, you know, their values. I, I don’t, I, I don’t buy in, you know, some motivational speaker, go find your passion, you know, I mean, but it’s really, you know, your values and the activities that you choose to express your values, that becomes your passion. 

38:28
Erin
Oh, I like that. 

38:30
Nancy
What is find your passion, what you’re passionate to do. So people forever never find a passion because what is that? What does that mean? See what I’m saying? I do introspection, okay. 

38:42
Erin
And so then the next one is individual improvement. Tell me about that. 

38:47
Nancy
Okay. When we were much younger, of course, we learn, all right? We study, we grow so on, so forth, right? But after we come to a certain age, people tend to stop because kind of like, I know it all. I mean, frankly, a lot of stuff we already know, right? Whatever books we read, we kind of know. But it’s not that you know it all because we could, we will look at it at a different angle, right? Like I talk about step up, level up, same, but different. 

39:18
Erin
Yes, you know, same always growing. 

39:22
Nancy
Yes, correct. So that’s the self improvement part. And also you know, this sense of accomplishment. A sense of achievement. And it doesn’t have to come from a big job, you know, you win something and so on, so forth. Just like I said just now, right? My home improvement, never stop. There’s a sense of achievement because I’ve created this, I’ve done this, and this looks so good for who? For myself, not for the world to see. 

39:53
Erin
For myself, Right? 

39:55
Nancy
Yeah. So then also right next, the accomplishment could be, okay, I just took on a challenge last year. The challenge is golf. Because I’m interested in golf, because I’m just so bad at anything to do with balls. Anything do with balls, I’m bad, okay? So I said, okay, I want a challenge. I’m not talking about work challenge, but something that I know I’m not good at. I want to challenge myself, right? So I, I did go. And then when I told some people, I said, oh, you like it, don’t you? I said, I don’t know. I don’t know. I sucks at it, right? So I said I’m not in a hurry to like, yeah, I gotta be so good at it. But I’m challenging, right? What I’m not good at, that’s. That’s about improvement, right? That’s about individual improvement. 

40:49
Nancy
That’s about, yeah, I want to improve what I’m not good at. And it, and the subconscious mind doesn’t know it’s about a professional or personal or a hobby. Doesn’t know, but just know the feeling. So when I’m able to overcome that, it’s like, yeah, right. But that wind is inside, not the after something win. 

41:12
Erin
Yeah. So the joy isn’t in the golf. The joy is in challenging yourself and watching yourself improve. 

41:18
Nancy
Yes. So it’s like, what am I not getting? What am I not getting? So I have to correct it, right? Then I’ve got it. It’s like, yeah, you know, but I’m not like, oh, yes, people. The golfers was like, oh, so how’s your hit? You know, did you hit the 200 meter marks? I said, oh, come off it, come off. It’s still a long way to go, you know, but it doesn’t matter for me. Is that baby step, right. That little improvement? Okay. That’s like a big win for me. And again, the subconscious doesn’t know small win or big win. The subconscious only know, yes, I did it. The achievement, the accomplishment. So subconsciously, when you get that, so when then in life we are hit by something. All right? Negative, no big deal. I’ve done it. I’ve done it so often. 

42:09
Erin
Yes, right. 

42:10
Nancy
I can’t hit the ball, you know, now I did it. So the subconscious doesn’t know that I’m hitting the ball, but subconscious know that I’m persistent, I persevere, I have resilience. Right. So on and so forth. Right. Subconscious know all that. So that’s. 

42:25
Erin
Yes, you’re reminding me. I had heard once and I loved it. This idea that competence builds confidence. That’s right. And so, yeah, I think those little wins over and over and over again are the competence that are going to build the confidence. And then I guess to take it one step further, like you described, be able to carry you through hardship times. 

42:48
Nancy
Correct, correct. You see, we all know this in theory, but then are people doing it practically. 

42:55
Erin
Right. 

42:57
Nancy
Small win thing, right? We all know that, right. That’s why I said nothing is new. Nothing is new. But whether people implement it in their life, okay. And so this is where I coach. All right? Where the individual in my group. Right. On implementation, in fact, actually did a three days bootcamp all about implementation. Right. I mean, strangely, people do not implement. They think they do, but they don’t. 

43:22
Erin
It’s all kind of beautifully coming together here for me, and I love it because the other thing that I’m connecting with right now is that eventually, as you get older, the world may stop throwing these challenges at you. Whereas when you’re young and you’re having to learn to walk and learn to talk and learn to ride a bike and learn to read and write, you know, the world is constantly challenging you. You can get to a point in adulthood where there’s a fair amount of comfort and that may not happen. So you have to seek it. It’s that intentionality that you were talking about earlier.

43:59
Nancy
Correct. Because like I said, we think we know it all, which is not untrue. We know a lot, right? We know a lot. But then the knowing a lot does it serve us as like implement in many different ways for us to continue to grow? 

44:14
Erin
Right. 

44:14
Nancy
People stop growing, people stop learning because they know loads. That’s. That’s the point. Which is not untrue. But again, the implementation of stepping up, leveling up is very lacking. So you see that why people age so badly. How does dementia comes about? They stopped using their brain. Of course. What we already know is too obvious. It was not being challenged. 

44:41
Erin
Yeah. So I guess the other thing I’m hearing from you is just the ability to recognize all that you don’t know and let go of that sense of certainty that sometimes is maybe just again that comfort that we fall into as we age. 

44:55
Nancy
Is that certainty or complacency. You got me being complacent. 

45:02
Erin
Yeah. I meant it more like, you know, kind of what you were describing around thinking that you know it all or you have it all figured out. Yeah, I think you’re right too. 

45:12
Nancy
Yeah. Then become. Yeah. Certainty. Yeah, I agree. That certainty. And the certainty becomes people become complacent, but they don’t think they’re complacent. That’s, that’s the danger about the high performing professionals. Because we are successful. Right. There’s no complaint about we are not achieving. 

45:35
Erin
Right. 

45:36
Nancy
That’s the issue where someone is not achieving. They recognize I’m not achieving. So, so if they have the desire, they have to do something. But we are achieving. Right. We prove that, you know, our bank statement is healthy. You know what I mean? We have lots of stuff and we have a lifestyle. Right. We go to clubs. Go to theater, you know, so the appearance that what we have that we are good, so we stop learning, we stop growing. Because I’m good, right? Oh, but they did not realize that they are deteriorating because if you don’t grow, we don’t grow, we decline. That’s no status quo as the same, Right? No such thing grow or decline. So I force myself to grow. 

46:27
Erin
I love it. So I wanted to go back to your strategies. The third one is integrating your personal and professional life. 

46:35
Nancy
Exactly. Work life balance. People got it so wrong. Yeah, it’s work life balance. Right. If you look at personal satisfaction and professional success is work life balance. And most organization that way they put that is also to me strong in my opinion. Okay. Not to offend anybody. It’s not work life balance as equal number of hours. All right? It’s not. I can fulfill just as good, you know, just the same amount of time or effort. We can’t because there’s certain period of time. We just have to be more devoted and project at work. So therefore you’re spending less time at home with your family, with your children, with your own hobbies. Right. There are times that, yeah, you have more time and therefore you can have more time with yourself. Right. 

47:31
Nancy
So the work life balance to me is make your life work and create that balance. In short, I never forget any areas of my life that is important. I make it a point and schedule them accordingly. 

47:50
Erin
Give me an example of what that looks like. 

47:53
Nancy
Okay, let’s take exercise for example. 

47:55
Erin
Yeah. 

47:56
Nancy
People do not exercise because they have no time. Right. I have to dash office by this hour and all that because I have this project, I have this long meetings, I have calls. Of course, you know all this zoom thing, good and bad. When we used to go to office, pre-Covid. Right. We end work by certain time. Right. But a lot of times now because of technology, you’re on call at 10pm, you’re on call at 12pm because of different time zone. 

48:20
Erin
Right? 

48:21
Nancy
Right. So where’s the work life balance? So people become very unhappy. That’s rubbish. That’s not work life balance. It. Yeah. Today you have this late course, tomorrow, how you going to adjust that? 

48:35
Erin
Like find the equilibrium again? 

48:38
Nancy
Exactly. 

48:38
Erin
Rebalance it? Yeah, exactly. 

48:40
Nancy
Like this morning. Right. I still exercise five times a week. I as much as I can, I want to do five times a week. So our podcast this morning, right. For me, my time is at 9am So I said I don’t want to not do it because again, programming. Right. If you. No, I’m not doing it today. I’m not doing next day. Oh, there’s another day. Then you keep on like there’s another day. So I just said, okay, I can do 20 minutes. I don’t have an hour, but I can do a 20 minutes, a more intensive one. And I still did it. 

49:14
Erin
Something’s better than nothing. 

49:16
Nancy
Correct? Correct. See, that’s work life balance for me. But then I can’t exercise because I have no time to exercise. Right. I can. All right. But it’s a question like, you know, choose again choices. I don’t have to be so fixated. I must do my 55 minutes body palm. No. Right. If my schedule is later. And then yes, I can do my 55 minutes body part. Because I’m my own. I have my own home gym. Okay. Again, I created my own home gym. So the convenience, right. Rather than I have to go to the gym or I have to find time to go out to the pool. But that I can do. I can go to my club on a certain weekend. You see. So how you schedule in just like scheduling. 

50:05
Erin
Yeah. Lots of great examples of flexibility in there. 

50:08
Nancy
Yeah. I’m being fluid. 

50:10
Erin
Yeah. 

50:11
Nancy
Just I said this morning. Right. So if I can do 20 minutes. So my entire being feels so good. Because it can consider as a challenge too. I did it because it’s never fun to exercise. It’s necessary. If anybody say it’s fun. No, it’s hard work. It’s hard work. But again it’s a challenge. Again, it’s achievement. Right. So it’s the individual improvement. 

50:36
Erin
Nice. 

50:37
Nancy
Yeah. 

50:37
Erin
The fourth one is interpersonal investment. 

50:40
Nancy
Yeah. So it’s like related to all that I have mentioned. What I mean by that? Interpersonal first your relationship with yourself. 

50:49
Erin
Okay. 

50:50
Nancy
So the above points already, you know, the three points that you actually working with yourself, you know your own improvement. You check in what went wrong. Correct it that you really foster a certain connection with yourself. So called know thyself. Right. Know oneself first. 

51:13
Erin
Right? Right. 

51:13
Nancy
Then you have to invest the time interpersonal relationship with others that matters. Some people are social butterfly. So they think that interpersonal relationship is like, you know, go networking and know everybody and be with everybody. Now I don’t mean that you have to be so selective, but whatever that you consider it matters, right. I mean to each its own. What does it matters? Of course, family matters, certain friends matters, certain associate matters. And also you got again having the anti mind. 

51:48
Erin
So there’s a certain quality aspect to the connection. 

51:52
Nancy
Correct? Correct. Correct. And also the connection is important. I have a client that came to me yesterday. So I said, all good? He said, yeah, all good. I said, all right. What? What? May. May be a little off, right? Says, oh, my relationship, my wife. I said, okay. What’s not good about it? He says, well, I think it’s not as it was before. I said, how long have you been married? 20 years. I said, okay. You know, it is a bit challenging after 20 years. You know each other so much. All that you have said it all, all right. Nothing that is so new anymore. And I then said to him, I said, let me refrain for you. Are you saying to me that you’re not feeling that connection as much as you did some time ago? Not that they’re having a bad relationship. 

52:41
Nancy
They just feel like, you know, it says, yeah, that’s right. So is that bonding, that connection? So this is what. Exactly what I mean, that, you know, with people, that matters, right? I have elder sister about 10 years older than I am. Because of her, she sacrificed loads. That’s why I got what I have today. That means the opportunities, everything else when I was young. So she matters. I will make it a point to spend time with up. All right, Betty. Once a month or whatever. I make it a point I won’t forget again. 

53:13
Erin
Scheduling, right? I’m hearing you talk about scheduling time. Is there any other aspect to what it looks like to invest in a relationship with someone that matters? 

53:25
Nancy
Time, effort, okay? Understand their love language. Give people what they want, don’t give them what you think they want. 

53:35
Erin
Yeah, right. 

53:36
Nancy
Many people always give what they think the other people want. And then you backfire it. Backfire because, like, what do you mean? I’ve. I’ve done all this for you. And then. Because it’s not this. Not that love language, okay? No, I don’t think you love me. What? I’ve been doing all this and doing this. But no, because that’s not what they want. Say example, the love language is quality time. And then the husband, you know, being sweet, you know, traveling and all that will come back with all the gifts. All the gifts. The wife is pissed off, you’ve been traveling. And then when you come home, you go for your golf or you go for whatever, right? Or you go, you rest, but where’s the time between us? 

54:21
Nancy
But then, husband, is that I give you all these gifts, I show you I love you. It’s money, it’s effort. I didn’t just pick that from the airport. I make it a point and choose to give, right? Not those that just go to airport and pick up something but still be on the wrong page, on a different page, because it’s a different love language. So it requires understanding. I have written my first book by myself called Love Reignited. 

54:50
Erin
Love Reignited, Yes. 

54:53
Nancy
This is a so called five step to make love last forever. But actually what it is a conflict. I call it a conflict handbook. 

55:05
Erin
Okay. 

55:06
Nancy
A lot of times it’s the conflict that makes a relationship go sour. Be it intimate relationship, be it with your colleague, with your bosses, be it with your family. It’s the conflict that actually separate people. Right? Because there’s tension that builds up and then, you know, and people just, okay, whatever, I can’t solve it. I just walk away from it or I avoid it. So many married couples, they are married, they stay married, but they have no connection or bonding. So therefore, where’s the fulfillment? 

55:39
Erin
Right? The last one is investing intrinsically. 

55:44
Nancy
Yeah, that’s got do a lot about self care. Self care. In fact, a lot of people tend to overlook the self care, okay. Besides exercise, besides diet. But really, you know, that should be number one. We come first. I would say I come first. Why? I come first? Because if I’m no good, I’m no good for anybody. 

56:09
Erin
Right? So filling your own cup so that it can spill over onto everyone else. 

56:14
Nancy
Exactly. Right. If I’m no good, I can’t be good for anybody. If I’m having a headache now, I can’t speak with you know, properly. 

56:24
Erin
Right. 

56:24
Nancy
I’ll just, whatever, let’s go through this podcast and be done, you know, because I’m having a headache. Right. But yeah, I have the energy, you know, I can go on forever with you and I contribute stuff and you know, so we are enjoying this conversation because. 

56:41
Erin
Yes. 

56:42
Nancy
So everybody has to come from that place. So a lot of people tend to think like, oh, if I look at myself, okay, that self care just I come first. Isn’t it selfish? And I said, no, it’s selfish when you’re not good because then you expect people to attend to you, isn’t it? Right. I’m not feeling good. Come on, give me some attention, give me some love. Come give me some tlc, you know? No, so I’m good. I’m a give. Like I said, I want to be generous. I’m a give. I’m gonna get, you know, and the more you give, the more, you know, I don’t know. For me, the more I give, the more fulfilling I feel. 

57:19
Erin
Right? So that self care comes first because that’s what fuels you to be able to give as much as you can correct. 

57:27
Nancy
So that self care has to come. All right. So it’s not just is external, internal, even time. Having the me time is self care. Some people extend themselves so much, then there’s no me time even. I coach the teenagers, always tell them, I said time for everything. Time to play, time to eat, time to rest, time to study, time for everything. Work, life, balance. But of course, the time for everything is not equal number of hours. But as I mentioned earlier on, it’s like not forgetting the important aspects in our life and schedule it accordingly. So when you do that, you have fulfillment. 

58:15
Erin
I love it. That’s actually, that’s a beautiful segue into the exercise we’re going to do together around building your fulfillment equation. So we’re going to take two steps. The first is to identify the ways that you love to spend your time in a given week. These are the things that make you feel fulfilled. If any one of them was missing, you would feel out of equilibrium. And then we’ll attach some quantities to it. So what are some of the ways, Nancy, that you like to spend your time? 

58:48
Nancy
Okay, so exercise is big for me. Okay. Right. Because we do not grow younger. We only grow older. And so therefore our body, our physical body is that vehicle. If the vehicle breaks down, we are done. Whatever desire we have, whatever love we have, whatever we want to give, we can’t give. Because I’m lying in bed, right? 

59:11
Erin
Yeah. 

59:12
Nancy
So I spent time with my. The size is big, all right. For me, I spent a lot of time creating different. I call it program. I was dream up. Like, you know, how can I make this person better? How can I make this, you know, this particular aspects of life better for someone? You know? So I’m always like spending a lot of time dreaming up. Right. So that’s why I say same, but different. Right. So I get excited. I get excited easily over anything and everything. 

59:44
Erin
Me too. We can bond in that way. Yeah. 

59:47
Nancy
So I spend time creating. Creating stuff. 

59:50
Erin
Okay. 

59:51
Nancy
Yeah. Then of course, I have my me time. I have my facial time, my massage time. Yeah. That’s why I said the me time is the self care. Yeah. And it’s not about just. It’s not luxury because there are choices. All right? The choices. I do that. I do. I do a lot of spiritual work. When I say spiritual means energy work, like or outdoors. I do my grounding, I do breathing, grounding, being with nature, being with the trees, talking with trees, Just being with the universe. Yeah. And communicating, like, you know, connecting and stuff like that. Yeah. I Spend a lot of time on that too. 

01:00:36
Erin
Oh, I like that. So we have exercise creating me time and your spiritual work. Anything else? 

01:00:47
Nancy
Oh, yes, of course. The other thing important, I’m a wine and dine person. 

01:00:51
Erin
Oh. 

01:00:53
Nancy
So I spend. All right. Not every night, of course. Okay. Like tonight. Today is Friday for me. All right. Friday here in Singapore. So tonight I would, you know, go to my favorite Japanese restaurant. And I’m. I’m very bonded with the service stuff there. So I get the best service and I’m there. I’m still coaching, you know, I’m still coaching. I’m still there. I don’t talk nonsense. I’m still there. Like, you know, talking about their life and how they can better, you know, some wine dine person. I still check out places that, you know, I’ve got good wine and good ambience. And, you know, sometimes I go with some people, so that’s what I do as well as certain, like few times a month. So. 

01:01:31
Erin
Nice. Fantastic. Anything else? 

01:01:36
Nancy
I think that fills up a lot of my time. I might go after golf lessons and practice for that challenge that I mentioned early on. Yes. 

01:01:46
Erin
Yeah, I’m gonna call that one your challenge time. Because, you know, maybe this year it’s golf, maybe next year it’s table tennis. I don’t know. There’s a lot of ball sports for you to explore. Okay, so now we’re just gonna attach some quantities to it because like any good recipe, some things you need a cupful and some a teaspoon. So exercise. If we were to think of your week in terms of time blocks, how many times a week would you want to spend time exercising? 

01:02:19
Nancy
Oh, I mentioned five times a week. Okay, five mornings a week. Yeah, as much as possible. Five mornings. I aim for five mornings. Right. So two mornings are just to get, like my recovery time, you know? Yes. 

01:02:33
Erin
How about creating. How much time a week do you spend creating? 

01:02:37
Nancy
Oh, I think I spend at least 70% of the time. Of course, I run a very busy practice average. I have like at least five to six clients a day. So my day is full. Yeah, yeah. 

01:02:50
Erin
And it’s that five days a week or six or like, what’s. What’s normal for you? 

01:02:56
Nancy
Seven days a week. 

01:02:57
Erin
Seven days a week. And this is why I love to do the equation, because there are maybe some people where working, I guess they might call it working. I love how you’ve called it creating, because that is your. Your passion. I can see it in your eyes when you talk about it. But. But doing something like that seven days a week may not be fulfilling for them, but it is for you. And I love that you are so in touch with that. 

01:03:24
Nancy
You see, it’s fulfilling for me because. But sweet spot. I’m in a sweet spot. That is not work anymore. 

01:03:29
Erin
Right. 

01:03:31
Nancy
I call it work is responsibility. Right. I cannot not show up. If it’s play, I cancel anytime. If it’s a facial appointment, I cancel anytime. Right. But work I can’t. And I’ve got a responsibility. Not only have to show up, I have delivered results. Right. I’m accountable, and so on and so forth. That’s the only reason I call it work. But otherwise, it’s what I choose to do. So I choose to, you know, like, after this, I’ve got to go to the office, right. And then to have somebody all the way from Russia. She. She actually just text me yesterday, says, oh, I just, I’m. I’m in town for a few days. I’d like to see you know, like, so exciting. You remember me? 

01:04:12
Erin
Yeah. You know what I mean? 

01:04:14
Nancy
You remember me. You could gone to any other therapist. Right? Okay. So. So I want, definitely. I’m excited, you know, like, like meeting an old friend. 

01:04:23
Erin
Yes. 

01:04:24
Nancy
And more meaningful is because I, I’m there to help her to overcome something. So that to me is so rewarding. Yeah. So even so people go, oh, you work seven days. My God. I said, no, it’s just that what we do in seven days, I just choose, you know, just like I choose, you know, to speak with you right now than anything else. It’s a choice. Right. Again, I said so many times, choose, choose. Choices, choices. Right. So I choose. So it’s not work, so it’s fulfilling because I have my why. 

01:04:56
Erin
And the fulfillment equation is all about being intentional, about designing how you’re spending your time. And so for you, that is, you know, that is the way that you love to spend your time. 

01:05:10
Nancy
Correct. But at the same time, like the equation, I still have time for the other things I want to do. Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. 

01:05:17
Erin
So I use a big letter when I’m putting something like a big block. So I’m going to give you seven. A big C for creativity on that one. 

01:05:26
Nancy
Okay. All right. 

01:05:27
Erin
All right. How about me time? How many times a week me time? 

01:05:33
Nancy
I guess at least four. Okay. I do the me time is not necessarily just a facial thing and all that, but it’s just been. Been quiet. 

01:05:42
Erin
Yes. 

01:05:43
Nancy
Right. Just. Just step back before to, you know, four to five times. Yeah. 

01:05:50
Erin
What about spiritual time? 

01:05:53
Nancy
Spiritual, I think, I guess. Okay. Besides going out to nature, of course. That. But again, I have my backyard, my front. My garden, I think almost every day. 

01:06:02
Erin
I was just gonna say. I feel like you’re gonna say it’s an everyday thing. It’s just part of what brings you joy on a daily basis. 

01:06:10
Nancy
Correct, correct. Because I scrutinize my trees and my plants, and that’s connecting with nature. Right. And then my bird and then my fish. 

01:06:20
Erin
Right. 

01:06:21
Nancy
So I pause and spend time with them. 

01:06:25
Erin
Beautiful. What about your dining? 

01:06:28
Nancy
Oh, dining. Let’s say three to four times a week. Yeah, at least three. At least three. 

01:06:34
Erin
Okay, three. That sounds awesome. I love a good meal out. And then you’ve got challenge time. How many blocks a week for challenges? 

01:06:45
Nancy
Twice a week. Twice a week, yeah. Yeah. 

01:06:47
Erin
Fantastic. Okay, so we have your equation, Nancy. Seven big C for creating, plus five for exercise, four for me time, seven for spiritual time, plus three for dining, and two for challenges. 

01:07:06
Nancy
How does that sound to you? 

01:07:07
Erin
Oh, it doesn’t matter what it sounds like to me. Although I am excited about it. Does it resonate with you? 

01:07:14
Nancy
Oh, yeah. Absolutely. 

01:07:17
Erin
Okay, some quick rapid fire questions for you before you go. Number one, finish the sentence. Fulfillment is…

01:07:23
Nancy
Doing things that is meaningful and purposeful. 

01:07:30
Erin
Give me an example of a small moment of joy you had in the last 24 hours. 

01:07:37
Nancy
Waking up with that smile on my face every morning I wear accessories that cause smile. The moment I wake up. The moment I open my eyes, I put a smile on and that sets the day. 

01:07:51
Erin
I love that. What is a book you read or a podcast you listened to that changed the way you think? Think? 

01:07:59
Nancy
I think that would come from Sydney Banks. Sydney bank is not somewhat very big time, you know, author or, you know, a speaker or a trainer that is like so well known. In fact, he was a welder. Scottish welder. 

01:08:18
Erin
Okay. 

01:08:19
Nancy
Yeah. He was depressed. He was so depressed then he went to psychiatrist after psychiatrist and was so depressed then. What did dawn on him that why he was so depressed? Because everything starts and end with the way we think. Right. It’s our thoughts that we dwell, then dwell and dwell that make us, you know, fixated. Because we can’t change, especially the past. 

01:08:49
Erin
Yes. 

01:08:50
Nancy
Yeah. So that’s why I talk about this outsidey kind of thing. So is this outside misunderstanding that is like our problems is created by somebody, someone else or some situation? No. Everything outside of us is neutral. Is how we think about it, that we give it meaning. 

01:09:18
Erin
Yeah. 

01:09:19
Nancy
Everything is neutral. Right. Oh, I love that Black Forest cake. No, come on. The cake is neutral. It’s my thought about it that gives us that so called the idea what it means to us. Right. So that’s the three principles. Mind, consciousness, thoughts, if anything else. That was very impactful for me.

01:09:45
Erin
In one sentence, what does freedom look like to you? 

01:09:48
Nancy
Being my authentic self and express my values. 

01:09:53
Erin
What is the coolest place you’ve visited or a place you visited that exceeded your expectations? We didn’t talk about it today, Nancy, but there’s a bit of a travel theme happening in this fulfillment equation thing. 

01:10:06
Nancy
Okay. I’m someone that don’t travel very much, or rather I only travel for a purpose. I’m not a holiday person. That’s why I see, I never. You never hear my saying that.

01:10:13
Erin
That’s okay. It could be something within Singapore where you live. 

01:10:19
Nancy
I, I do travel. I’ve been to States so many times. I mean, I’ve been going to the States for like the last, what, 20 years? Every year for a couple of times. But I’m not the holiday person. Like I have to travel this to go and see that and to be in the mountains or go for skiing. Just not my thing. But if anything else, I call it my adult playground will be Dubai. 

01:10:41
Erin
Oh, yeah. 

01:10:42
Nancy
Yes, yes, Dubai. Everything is bigger, better and as a wine and dine person is exciting. 

01:10:48
Erin
Nice. 

01:10:49
Nancy
Yeah. 

01:10:49
Erin
What is something you do regularly to fill your own cup? 

01:10:54
Nancy
That’s interesting. My introspection, my reflection. Yeah, yeah, my reflections. Always checking. 

01:11:03
Erin
Yeah, we saw it in your equation a bit too. Like you’ve actually built in, even in your equation, things you do regularly to fill your own cup. 

01:11:12
Nancy
Yeah, yeah, it’s inward rather than, like I said, not going for the chase. Like I’ll be happy looking at my plants, you know, how they grow. What do I do with that? And I wake up in the morning, right? I go to my birds is Joey and Josephine. Good morning, Josephine. Oh, you lovely girl, aren’t you? I mean, my neighbor go like she’s talking away again. Come, come have your breakfast. 

01:11:39
Erin
Sometimes it’s just the little things, isn’t it? 

01:11:42
Nancy
Yes, yes. I mean, much more joy, you know, than, you know, you, let’s say, win a big lottery, I think, because, you know, I mean, it’s like, really? Huh? I seen a bird, I would go, oh, yeah, just yesterday they were just. I changed them to a bigger cage and then they were eating away and I took a video. I go, oh. I was like, oh, excitement. I mean, just watching the bird eating. Yeah. 

01:12:08
Erin
I love it. I totally can see that. Nancy, thank you so much for joining me today. This has been such a pleasure. I have really loved getting to know you and I love how it feels like we’re talking the same language a lot of the time. But you have also brought to the table so much for making to take away and think about and for us all to have learned today. So I really appreciate it. Thank you. 

01:12:33
Nancy
I enjoy it. Definitely. I enjoy the time together. Thank you very much. 

01:12:41
Erin
If you like this podcast and want to support it, tell a friend about it. You can also connect with Fulfillment Equation through Instagram or Facebook for updates on new episodes, daily doses of joy and fun travel tips. And if you are really into it, feel free to join the Fulfillment Equation community through the website at fulfillmentequation.com where you will get a weekly email with insider information and free resources to help you build more fulfillment into your own life. I hope you enjoyed the episode today. There’s more to come this season, so stay tuned. 

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